Re: callamanus help

[Frances]

Callen, I'm using the Jungle Lab stuff.  I'm hoping it will work, but if it doesn't, I'd like to give the levamisole a try.  Today, Oscar's a little skittish.  He's back on regular food for a while.  (I'm following the label on the Jungle Med food.)  I noticed that he eats, and then kind of coughs some of it back up.  Is that normal?  I'm worried about him.

The pleco seems much better, and I was holding off on the epsom salts, but having reread this, I'm thinking I should add some to help the fish get rid of any dead worms.  This is pretty yucky!!  I sure hope this becomes more fun soon.

Frances

[callen]

Yes it's normal for them to spit it out.  Soaking them in garlic may help.

I would try the Epsom salts...it can't hurt.

I know this is not easy deal with but you are doing everything you can.  Hang in there.

[Frances]

Thanks Callen.  Is the full dose of epsom salts ok for the pleco?  I'm adding the salts slowly so I can keep an eye on the pleco.  I'm a little worried about salt with the pleco.  I'm starting off with 1 tspn per 10 gallons tonight, and adding the same amount tomorrow morning and tomorrow night.  That would give 1 tblspn per 10 gallons by tomorrow night, which would be half the dose recommended here, but the amounts people dose are all over the map!!

Frances

[Sharn]

sorry i cant help with the dosing, id go with 1tbsp per 10gal (only replace what you take out with w/c's as it does not evaporate)

callen- sadly everything i have read said that prazi and metro have no effect on camallanus it would be so much easier if they did!

heres a snippet i took out of my article on it for ya Frances, please note though that this is the dosage i chose to use after many hours reading the various methods, some said to dose for shorter/longer periods of time so i shot for the middle and my fish were fine. sorry it is in litres, its what we use over here.

Levamisole Hydrochloride seems to be the favourite to use but I have seen recommendations of Piperazine and Fenbendazole. The dosage for Levamisole is 1.5ml per 7.5L or water when using a 7.5% solution. I obtained a 24% solution so used 1ml per 22L (not exact but close enough). Levamisole is widely used as a pig and poultry wormer and sometimes a sheep drench. NEVER attempt to pull the worms out the fish- this will rip their intestinal lining as they are securely anchored in there.

METHOD
•Do a 90% water change making sure to vacuum the substrate very well as this is where the nematode young will mainly be. It is reported that the young can be in the water body itself so this is partly why such a large water change is recommended.
•Add Levamisole at the required dose (I mixed it in a litre of water then poured into the aquarium)
•Wait 48 hours (some reports suggested 24 hours, some 72. I decided to go in between). If your fish show signs of not liking the treatment do a water change at 24 hours. My rummies were pale at 48 hours yet the other fish were all fine.
•Do another 90% water change making sure to vacuum the substrate really well.
Repeat in two weeks.

If they are still infested after the second treatment (do note that they will pass the worms so a water change a few days after treatment is suggested as these can contain eggs, I thought this was re-infestment straight after treating when I saw my rummy nose pass an adult worm) you are able to treat again, Levamisole is a very gentle medication and will not harm your bio filters at all. Experiments have showed that over dosing the medication 5 times showed no ill effects but Levamisole does cause intestinal upset at any dose so it is not advised to OD as it can give the fish diarrhoea. Levamisole is totally safe for sensitive fish like plecos, clown loaches, discus etc.

once again this is just my own conclusions from reading many articles on the internet about C. Cotti. hope it help some 

[callen]

Thanks Callen.  Is the full dose of epsom salts ok for the pleco?  I'm adding the salts slowly so I can keep an eye on the pleco.  I'm a little worried about salt with the pleco.  I'm starting off with 1 tspn per 10 gallons tonight, and adding the same amount tomorrow morning and tomorrow night.  That would give 1 tblspn per 10 gallons by tomorrow night, which would be half the dose recommended here, but the amounts people dose are all over the map!!

Frances

Epsom salts are different then Aquarium salt.  Epsom salt is a chemical compound containing magnesium. 

Yes Sharn I had read a few things also prazi and metro having little effect...but my thought here is that if Frances couldn't get levamisole...it was worth a shot.  It's not the easiest to buy here. I even tried feed/farm supply store in my area and they carry it BUT only in large quantities and the smallest amount cost over $200.00.    It all depends on where.  I heard that you can't even get it in California at all.  My guess is every state is different but from what I have seen it's very expensive.  If you are lucky your local vet will carry smaller amounts.  I will continue to do research and see what I can find.

[Frances]

From what I've been able to find out, it (levamisole) used to be in some of the fish medications, but they took it out!  I can't find it anywhere online, and I don't have any other animals, so I don't have a vet that I can go to for the meds.  The parasite clear does have Fenbendazole in it, so I'm hoping it will do the trick.

I know it's used for humans (cancer patients) so maybe that's why it's no longer available in pet stores.  People in the US do some pretty nutty things when they can't afford their meds.



Frances

[callen]

Yes Frances I was finding the same thing today and even contacted my vet friend in NC and he can't get levamisole either.  But he did recommend Parasite Clear also.  So looks like you are on the right track.  I hope it works and please keep us posted.

[Frances]

Assuming that I can get grades done, etc at work tomorrow, I'm thinking about calling the 800 number and getting some live advice from Jungle Labs.  If I can reach a real person, I'll post what they recommend in the way of frequency of dosing, etc.

Thanks for checking into that Callen!  I appreciate the time and effort.

[Sharn]

good luck with the fenbendazole, i had mixed success with it (cured some fish and not others, probably due to some had heavier loads than others i guess). the good thing about fenbendazole is it is eaten and goes straight to where it is needed making it often more effective than treatments via water

[callen]

I'm thinking about calling the 800 number and getting some live advice from Jungle Labs.  If I can reach a real person

Good deal, please let us know.  At this point whatever information we can get would be very helpful.  Thanks Frances!

I was thinking of writing to a few fish pharmaceutical companies myself and seeing what they would recommend for camallanus.

Your Welcome Frances and hope that fenbendazole works!

[Frances]

Found another med that I can get: Flubendazole: Flubenol, Flumoxal, Fluvermal.  This is in Gel Tek anti-parasite.  Does any one have anecdotal (preferably positive) stories about this med?  I'm doing another round of the Jungle labs food this weekend and then I'm switching to the gel tek.  I think that I've caught this early, which is about the only hopeful thing here.

Both fish are still swimming, eating and growing, so I'm going to try to be optimistic here.

Frances

[callen]

Yes I have heard of the gel tek ...ULTRA CURE PX.  Is that the one?  I'd be very interested to hear what you think.

[Sharn]

i have heard great stories of success when using that med to treat Hexamita, im not sure if it will be effective on camallanus though (i recall people mentioning the difference between fenbendazole and flubenol but not much other than that). does it say what it treats for on the pack?

[callen]

Ultra Cure PX is a revolutionary way to treat internal parasites in both freshwater and saltwater fish. Scientifically formulated with Metronidazole and Praziquantel, Ultra Cure PX helps control a variety of parasites such as intestinal worms, nematodes, tapeworms, flagellates, fish heartworms and Hexamita. This innovative Gel-Teknology directly treats infected fish and helps prevent secondary infections which can often occur during periods of infestations. Ultra Cure PX contains fish pheromones to entice and enhance feeding behavior without clouding the aquarium water. Ultra Cure PX is safe for all saltwater and freshwater fish and especially useful with catfish, cichlids, goldfish and other bottom feeders.

[Sharn]

sounds like it might be a goer if it does nematodes etc, be interesting to see how well it works when used to treat camallanus based on what it contains (metro and prazi). please let us know how you get on