Conditioning water AFTER it's been added back in

[mssbass]

My oscar has hole in the head disease. He has been going crazy about 3-5 times a week by hitting himself hard against the top and sides of the tank. I have a 90 gallon tank with only 1 oscar, pleco and convict. He now has a busted lip (busted in half!) - I've bought a grounding stick in case there is some sort of electricity in the water and some medicine for his hole in the head. I'm planning to freeze some homemade food for him as well. I'm wondering if all of this may have been cause by adding my chlorine remover to the tank while he is still in it. My process for cleaning is using a siphon along the gravel bed (about 20% of water removed). When adding water back in from tap, I feel it to make sure it's same temp as aquarium. I don't treat the tap water BEFORE I put it in the aquarium. I have been adding Stress coat to the aquarium measured by the amount of new tap water I'm putting back in. Could this be making my oscar sick??? Does anyone else add back tap water WITHOUT conditioning it first (add conditioner after the fact)?

[Blake]

First off Welcome to the OSpot, I am sorry to hear your fish is having a rough time.
Second, a dechlorinater is mainly used for the preservation of your beneficial bacteria that has established in your tank. When you add the Stress coat do you turn off all filters and let it sit for at least 20 minutes? If not, then the Stress coat is easily removed by the filters, especially if you are using any filter media that has carbon in it.

For us to better assist you please answer as many of the following questions as detailed as possible. This gives us more of a feel of what exactly is going on in your tank and with your fish buddies.


Tank Size:
How long has it been setup:
How many fish:
Type of fish:
Size of fish:
Filtration:
Ammonia Reading:
Nitrite Reading:
Nitrate Reading:
PH Reading:
Temperature:
Any recent changes in tank decor or tank mates:
Any medication:
Food what kind how often:
When was last water change and how much:

[donsfish]

Welcome to the Oscar Spot. As Bmac has given you a list of questions Very important that you give as much as that info as you can, it will help us try to help you and sort out what's happening with your Oscar. I'd already suspect that 20% water changes are not enough to keep your nitrates in check.

Just to clarify.....Stress Coat is the dechlorinator (tap water conditioner) that you're using correct? And what will actually happen if you run your filters during a water change or too soon after is the chlorine that hasn't had enough time to get removed will kill off your beneficial bacteria in your filters and you'll constantly be fighting your tank trying to stay cycled.

Many of us add tap water directly to the tank while doing our cleaning rather than pretreating in a bucket first. I add my tap water conditioner before filling and then let it set for about 10 minutes or so before turning the filters back on. Also, you'll want to add enough of the conditioner to treat the whole tank volume. Meaning.....If you change half of your 90 gallons you're really only adding back 45 gallons, but you'll add enough conditioner to treat the whole 90 gallons. When the conditioner is added while it's filling it will circulate throughout the water better than adding it after it's already filled up.

Anyway, please do give as much of that information as possible and the good people here will be more than happy to help you and your fish out.

[Paul]

Welcome to the site. The guys gave you covered.

[JohnL]

Welcome the guys have you covered just want to add that HITH is caused by poor diet and or bad water conditions. I use Prime water conditioner and add it at the same time as the water from the tap.

[OinKY]

I don't treat the tap water BEFORE I put it in the aquarium.

This would be the main contributing factor to everything,including the alledged HITH.
Chlorine is added to water solely as an anti-bacterial (you didn't mention whether municipal uses chloramine too),so its purpose is to kill bacteria...any bacteria... on contact. Didn't mention whether you run filters during the water change (some do,some don't,during gravel vacuuming part),but if you do 20% chlorinated water is enough to wipe them clean.Effectively rendering the water change useless and putting the tank back to square one (initial cycling).

As per excellent advice above,turn filters off,do a larger water change (base this on nitrate testing),add dechlorinator for entire tank volume (90g) and then fill tank...wait and turn filters back on.Not really a big change to your routine.

Didn't mention whether testing water quality or not,but it is necessary (especially with suspected HITH). Ammonia/Nitrite should always be 0 and Nitrates ideally 10 or less. The water change routine you do (amount,how often) should be done with that Nitrate reading in mind. Drops-style kits like API Master Freshwater are much more accurate than any strip for this.

[callen]

Welcome to the site and sorry under these circumstances. The above information and advice is spot on. Hope that we can help.

Moving this to 911.

[mssbass]

Ok guys - thank you for your response. I'll try to give you as much info as possible. The real question is can I leave my oscar and others in the tank while I add tap water directly from the tap. I add the stress coat as the tap water comes into the aquarium. The fish huddle in the corner. I understand now I need to turn off the canister filter as I add the new water and let sit for 5 minutes after adding. I bought a grounding probe but after reading all the controversy, I don't think I'm going to use it; however, I'm definitely going to install a GFCI outlet!

Tank size - 90 gallons
Set up 4 years
3 fish - 1 large oscar, 1 convict (adult), 1 pleco (5")
Filtration - 1 Rena XP Canister Filter (no carbon)
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 10ppm
PH = 6.0
Temp = 80
All decor is out of the tank due to the oscar trying to kill himself (split lip, shedding scales due to hitting himself on top of tank)
Just bought and adding Fish Zole for HTH disease (1 small hole on top of head - but growing) Other fish do not show symptoms of the disease.
about 7-10 large pellets daily of Cichlid Gold (red pellets) twice daily - oscar tends to chew up and spit out alot
last water change was today (1/2 of tank) - added Fish Zole and new vitamins (vitamins clouded water quite a bit)

Thank you so much for your help. There isn't any real help here in my area.

[Blake]

Ok guys - thank you for your response. I'll try to give you as much info as possible. The real question is can I leave my oscar and others in the tank while I add tap water directly from the tap. I add the stress coat as the tap water comes into the aquarium. The fish huddle in the corner. I understand now I need to turn off the canister filter as I add the new water and let sit for 5 minutes after adding. I bought a grounding probe but after reading all the controversy, I don't think I'm going to use it; however, I'm definitely going to install a GFCI outlet!

Tank size - 90 gallons
Set up 4 years
3 fish - 1 large oscar, 1 convict (adult), 1 pleco (5")
Filtration - 1 Rena XP Canister Filter (no carbon)
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 10ppm
PH = 6.0
Temp = 80
All decor is out of the tank due to the oscar trying to kill himself (split lip, shedding scales due to hitting himself on top of tank)
Just bought and adding Fish Zole for HTH disease (1 small hole on top of head - but growing) Other fish do not show symptoms of the disease.
about 7-10 large pellets daily of Cichlid Gold (red pellets) twice daily - oscar tends to chew up and spit out alot
last water change was today (1/2 of tank) - added Fish Zole and new vitamins (vitamins clouded water quite a bit)

Thank you so much for your help. There isn't any real help here in my area.

Not sure where you got "Let it sit for 5mins", but I would recommended a little longer than 5mins. I always let mine sit at least 15mins sometimes longer just to be on the safe side. Your canister has water in it, your BB isn't going anywhere for the 30-45mins that it is turned off. Please be sure you are treating 90 gallons worth of water and not just what you add back. I recommended tossing the conditioner in BEFORE you begin to add water, IMO it gives it a 30ish second headstart and while it may have no benefit it does give me peace of mind.

Second thing, you are underfiltered. We recommended 5x tank volume turn over rate for canister filter, 7.5x for HoB/Canister mixture and 10x for strictly HoB, and while you didn't state the model number of XP filter you had, I do know that the highest model is XP4 at its max flow rate is 450GPH(and is less with added media), which is minimum for your tank. So I would suggest putting another filter on that gets you up to snuff. We could assist you more if we knew what model number you had.

Third thing, assuming you tested the water AFTER the water change then you have some high nitrates to have just done a 50% water change. My nitrates in my 125Gal are normally at 10 when its time for a water change, not after. One thing you didn't mention, was how often you do water changes? Most of the issues you seem to be having are from poor water quality. What did you use to test your water? Liquid or test strips?

Fourth, Oscars are just messy eaters, it may look as though he is spitting it out, but most of the time it is just food coming out of the gill area from them chewing and eating. Be sure to remove whatever food is not eaten within a couple of minutes after they seem to not being eating anymore.

[donsfish]

Thanks for the added information.
Yes it's preferable to leave the fish in the tank during water changes, much less stressful for them than trying to remove them all the time.

Do you know the rena filter model you're using?.....how many baskets are in it will determine that. xp 3 has 3 baskets, xp4 has 4 baskets. It'll help determine the flow rating and how well you are setup for filtration.....

Your ammonia,nitrite, nitrate numbers look good...is this before or after a water change?

ph seems a little low, but I'm no guru on ph. What I do know is that consistency is more important than aiming for an exact number. Test your ph straight out of the tap and let us know what that is to help determine how consistent it is or whether something in the tank is altering it.

Curious what vitamins you are adding? I use vita-chem and there's a slight cloudiness at first but clears up pretty quick.


*same time as Blake*

[donsfish]

BTW, any chance we can get a picture of the oscar...showing the hole you're talking about and it's nostrils. Just to help determine if it's actually HITH or something else.

[Alan]

the ph is a bit on low side , whats ph of water out the tap , if its above 6 then maybe your needing to add a buffer like tuffa rock it slowly dissolves in acidic water

[Gerry]

When I used dechlorinator I only ever treated what I put back.

Time wise the dechlorinator was added before I started filling and once the tank was filled then really only sat the time it took me to put away the hose,

[Blake]

When I used dechlorinator I only ever treated what I put back.

Time wise the dechlorinator was added before I started filling and once the tank was filled then really only sat the time it took me to put away the hose,

I guess mine is just a peace of ming thing...

[OinKY]

Fish in the tank,I dose whole volume but I fire up as soon as everything's put away too.IMO,that would depend on whether something is circulating the dosing.I do tend to fire up the Oscar tank last because it's the only one with no aeration running.

A pic would be helpful in telling whether it's HITH.Wouldn't medicate without knowing for certain,and then wouldn't add vitamins directly to water at same time (just because of possible chemical compounding).If using the vitamins,just soak the pellets in them and feed as usual...or use an eye-dropper and drip directly on food in a tablespoon (my wierd way).

The pH sounds odd,but that could also be according to what part of the country you're in and what the water source is.
Could also be out-dated or contaminated test kit (strips are bad about this).