water change and prime oscar now lathargic and sidways

[lgd1650]

help ASAP last night we did a 25% water change and added prime to tank, out of 6 oscars I have one that now went down almost immediatedly. he swims sideways and gets stuck n plants very weak and now been 8 hours getting worse. any help or suggestions be great asap. i know nothing about fish or oscars they are my boyfriends and I trying save this one i picked out. thanks in adavance!
also tank is 110 gal only oscars an placothomus in tank 2 filters with the bio

[callen]

Welcome and sorry under these circumstances.
Please answer as many items list below. The more we know the better we can help.

Tank Size:
How long has it been setup:
How many fish:
Type of fish:
Size of fish:
Filtration:
Ammonia Reading:
Nitrite Reading:
Nitrate Reading:
PH Reading:
Temperature:
Any recent changes in tank decor or tank mates:
Any medication:
Food what kind how often:
When was last water change and how much:

[Gerry]

Besides the above questions,

Did you add the dechlorinator before the new water was added, in the new water before adding or in the tank after the new water was added?

Was the filters turned off during the water change?

[lgd1650]

thank you, ok I will answer as many as I can again , i am new to this it is my boyfriends tank and i am the keeper of the fish to say with the way he works.


Tank Size: 110
How long has it been setup: 1mo )they were in 10 gal for a month then transferred all has been well until i took sample to pet store yesterday an they said the amonia level was up an PH I think(purple)
How many fish: 6
Type of fish: oscar an 2 placothoumus
Size of fish: abt 3 to 4 in
Filtration: pinquin 350
Ammonia Reading: not sure pet store said was up
Nitrite Reading:not sure pet store said was up
Nitrate Reading:not sure pet store said fine
PH Reading:not sure was up
Temperature: not sure
Any recent changes in tank decor or tank mates: no had dragon fish in there and they ate the all but one an i moved him and he died
Any medication: treated for ikk about 3 weeks ago before move to big tank
Food what kind how often: goldfish daily
When was last water change and how much: 25% last night an then the prime addded my water is natural spring water no chemicle to it straight from spring to house with filter on it
all the fish were fine until water change an he went down all rest were fine an still are the prime was added after new water put in,filters on during water change

[JayD976]

Looks to me your tank is still cycling. And secondly that is way to many Oscar for that sized tank I with would say 2 max also your filtration is subpar especially with Oscars as they ate very messy.

[donsfish]

Your tank is not cycled, and with high ammonia/nitrite readings I would suggest another larger water change at LEAST 50% even more would be better right away. Should get a liquid water test kit for better accuracy than the strips the pet shop likely used. You'll want to keep a close/regular eye on the readings yourself while the tank cycles....and we can give you a better idea of how much/how often water changes while the tank cycles. Ammonia/nitrites are quite toxic to fish. You'll be needing to do several water changes a week starting out while the tank gets cycled, then once a week should keep you in check after that....
Very important to turn filters/heaters off during water changes. The chlorine (what prime removes) will instantly kill off the beneficial bacteria you are trying to estabish for a cycled tank. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2091 A good read to better understand cycling a tank.

Filtration........need more. Personally I'd suggest adding a couple canister filters like Rena xp3s, or at least one xp4. Others may suggest other brands etc as well.

We always discourage live feeders. Too easily to spread diseases that way as well as nutrient deficiencies as a result. Much better to check out viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13487 for healthier foods.

[Bill]

Tank Size: 110


Filtration: pinquin 350
One penguin 350 is not enough filtration. For a tank this size the minimum for Hob (hang on back) filters would be 1100 gph (gallons per hour) flow rate.

Ammonia Reading: not sure pet store said was up
You really should get your own test kit as the pet store is not always entirely truthful.

Nitrite Reading:not sure pet store said was up
Ditto.

Nitrate Reading:not sure pet store said fine
Ditto


Temperature: not sure
Its very important to get your own thermometer in case something happens with temperature.

Food what kind how often: goldfish daily
Not a good idea to give feeders because of the risk of parasites. Heres a link to the food list for some ideas.

http://www.theoscarspot.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13487

[Alan]

when you did the water change was the new water close to the tank temp before you added it ?

[lgd1650]

Thank you so much for all the help, fish is still alive but on bottom sideways, on way get the test ket. With the filters there are 2 of the pinguin on there that have the 2 cartriges each. as for the water I dont have chlorine as it is natural spring water, so do i still need cut off with a water change? I will do the testing an post it. As for the others they all still fine. I have printed an article for my boyfriend to read on feeding gold fish to Oscars. I will do my best to get him to convert to pellets , his issue with pellets was the filthy tank and the mess left in tank. Thanks again for all the help.
Hope the little guy makes it he has beautiful color. I have never been in to fish but really want to learn an share this hobby with him. So you all are helping me learn so much , would love this fish to make it an to know I saught help to save all his fish and share the joy of these with everyone.

[JayD976]

It's better to deal with messy pellets then disease and parasite infested feeder fish. They offer no nutritional value at all do more harm then good.

[OinKY]

When was last water change and how much: 25% last night an then the Prime added my water is natural spring water no chemical to it straight from spring to house with filter on it.

If using natural spring water why the need for Prime ?
Saying you are using natural spring water (but not knowing your locality),I'd say that it's a safe assumption that you have either ammonia,nitrites,or nitrates (possibly traces of all three) present. So the test kit should also be used on your water source to test for that. As far as pH being up...how would lfs know what normal ph is for your tank ? If having them test that much,your own kit is definitely worth the investment.
What type of water filter on the house ?

2 filters with the bio....Penguin 350

Take that to mean that you have two Penguin 350's (pulled it as a split quote). That's barely 700gph on the 110g...so severely underfiltered. With the stocking,and short time the tank's been up,there lies a large part of the problem....overstocked and underfiltered while cycling.

Love Os myself but would never consider putting 6 in any tank,let alone a 110g. They are actually solitary fish that only come together to spawn (and then only as a pair) so throwing them together only creates chances for aggression...plus their messy habits can really tax filters. A 110g is only a 4' tank,and only a half inch wider than a 90g,so it makes its volume off its height...which means nothing to Os....so the floor space won't support 6 fish that should reach 12".

To solve the issue you are having some easy things need to be done...and some tough choices have to be made. First is testing the water quality through the cycling,second is getting filtration up around 1200+gph,third is large water changes...but these really won't help if you don't trim the stocking back to only two Os.

Far as the Goldfish...besides parasite/disease (and fact you add excess load on the filters),feeding them is messier than any pellets or prepared food you could feed.Scales and fleshy bits everywhere. If the complaint is how messy pellets are then they are being overfed...and that adds to the ammonia/nitrite problems along with the stocking/under-filtration.

[lgd1650]

Hello Everyone,
Thank you again for all your help, I went to "The big store that happens to sell fish" only place on Sunday night to get test kit.

BTW the oscar still alive,so i also was told by pet store to remove sick oscar put in by self. he now is laying on side but breathing, moves when touched a little not much tries to swinm if u bring him up in water. HIs water shows perfect it is 5 gallons w air bubbler

The only one i could get does not give % just safe, unsafe an neutral . Here is what going on the big tank with 5 oscars in is showing Nitrate high,
nitrite danger
hardness=safe
alkalinity =moderate
ph= neutrel
All as of 30 min ago.

As for the question about my water being natural spring water an why i used prime, I told pet store an he said use it, even though I had spring water it would break down amonia and nitrites.
as for my locality is in sw va. I have what they call whole house filter, no chemical type filtration system, my house is spring feed straight fr soring and my water tests alomst as pure as bottle water(have had it tested and the tester was shocked some of my levels were better than his filters he was trying to sell me to help my water)
as for the fish tank filters it has 2 of the pumps that have 2 filters each an 2 bio filters turning. Again this is all my boyfriends stuff and he had oscars pryor to these and only restarted the tank due to he moved here fr 4 states away and gave his all away. So he apparently had this many in this tank before an feed straight goldfish and had pictures of how huge they were.
I have however printed the articles on GF and Oscars and trying to get thru about switching over to pellets and a healthier diet. Conviencing him 6 is too many in this tank, well I dont know my word notmuch being I dont know fish.
SO with all that said I still want this little guy to live and any other suggestions on what to do to help him now that he is by hiself but still down would be grat and also on the big tanks problems how to solve as I dont want the others going down too! Thanks in advance!

[Gerry]

Hello Everyone,
HIs water shows perfect it is 5 gallons w air bubbler

This means he is in 5 gallons of water with no filter, so you will need to replace the water daily keeping the temp as close as you can

The only one i could get does not give % just safe, unsafe an neutral . Here is what going on the big tank with 5 oscars in is showing Nitrate high,
nitrite danger
hardness=safe
alkalinity =moderate
ph= neutrel
All as of 30 min ago.

Huge water changes in the region of 80%, One asap and with that amount of fish I would do 2 a week.

Did you test the tap/spring water?

As for the question about my water being natural spring water an why i used prime, I told pet store an he said use it, even though I had spring water it would break down amonia and nitrites.

That's a load of rubbish IMO

[OinKY]

Know it can be hard to convince somebody that their way probably isn't the best way...even though they may of had some success at it...but a bit of a good run doesn't guarantee success trying it repeatedly. Especially when way outside of what's considered,simply,safe.

Familiar with the SW Va area (Norton,Big Stone Gap,Pennington Gap) and it's "mountain springs".This time of year,quiet a bit of runoff from the limestone hills. You need to test the spring water with a good drops-style kit to get something other than a range of "safe/not safe". Feel fairly sure that most of your nitrite/nitrate readings are directly from the tap. The ammonia reading is the one you really need,but unfortunately don't have,to actually see where this situation is at.

Really interested in what kit called hardness "safe" It's a a simple number...it's all safe depending on what you are keeping.

[lgd1650]

Thank you all, ok so he has been in the 5 gal of water 24 hrs, so I should change 50% of it now and when i did the intial I put water conditioner in the and kep t temp abt 70. I also put some stress drops in water yesturday on recomendation of pet store.

as for the prime break down they told me use in spring water as I said I am just following advices, I did get him to eat one pellet while in 5 Gal today.
The test kit is called Quick Dip by jungle 5 tests in one strip.I do see #'s above the color sorry my bad I used the words w lines under the colors
I am in the Floyd County part of SW VA, and I did test my reg water before use an
nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
hardness=25
alkiline=40
ph=6.8
so finding this looking back wth water test for big tank
nitrate=80
Nitrite=10
hardness=75
alkiline=40
ph=6.8
for fish byself was
nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
hardness=25
alkiline=40
ph=6.8

I pointed out abt how before it was maybe a matter of time before liver diesease and that surely we could find pellets that were not as messy or feed less and that we could try to get them on a more natural habitat diet.