oscars lateral line

[aldevon2012]

hi all this is my very first post
i have two oscars on common oscars that is the smallest at seven inches and a tiger at roughly 9 they where both bought on in feb of this year and where roughly 2inches and 3 and a half , they are in a 98 gallon tank with two other tank mates a catfish that hides and a plec, 36 inch air curtain flowing on a timer at 4 hour in the morning and hour hours at night, filters are as follows with one fluval 4 plus gets cleaned twice per month and a 305 filter cleaned once a month , water changes happen twice a month hovering gravel and change about thirty percent . i do also scim the bottom every other feed just to keep it cleaner, they are feed on worms, prawns and cichlid floating pellets . my problem is the tiger oscar lateral liine is broken and the start of it at his head is slightly indented he jumps at night and really heels in a day or two, but this has not got better i.
water
ph. 7 has raised a little
no2. o,3mgl
nh3 nh4 0,25mgl
no3 12,5mgl
any advice would be great .
Al

[JayD976]

First ammonia and nitrite should always be 0.0. Secondly you are not doing nearly enough water changes. With oscars or any large cichlids you should be doing water changes weekly at Atleast 70% water change. Oscars are ver messy fish and produce a lot of waste. Their diet also seems to be all protein and lacking in the vitamin C department. If you can prepare your own homemade foods take a look at that section viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13487 or also looking into investing in seachem garlic guard and soaking the pellets in that mixed with water as its very potent and requires justa few drops.

[OinKY]

Welcome,but truly sorry it's an emergency situation.

There really shouldn't be any ammonia or nitrate reading in a mature tank. There doesn't seem to be enough filtration while flow ratings may seem adequate. How are the filters "cleaned" exactly ?
A canister should really only need cleaning of the media,by rinsing in tank water,every 3-6 months depending on bio-load and loss of flow. An internal filter really isn't a good idea with any messy fish (Plecos/Oscars) due to clogging,but if one is used it should have the sponges/pads rinsed in tank water at every weekly water change.

The water change routine is a bit small and on a too wide frequency.

water changes happen twice a month hovering gravel and change about thirty percent .

You might consider tightening up the frequency and/or upping the percentage. A 50% weekly would be more in line to keep water quality excellent...more fresh water,more often,never hurt any fish. You can also base it off a nitrate reading,and set a schedule,by trying to maintain a 5 in that respect.

Posted same as JayD976

[JayD976]

Let me also add that I battled HITH with my Oscar in the past and by upping the water changes and offering a more balanced diet he was able to overcome it and recover from it in just a few weeks. It will take some time effort and patience, but if you follow the advice given they will come through.

[donsfish]

I agree with what's already been said....know that Oinky was referring to ammonia and nitrite readings being zero. Nitrates are the end result of the nitrification process so there will always be a reading for those, the goal is to keep those at least below 20. Below 10 is even better. Lots of large water changes with tap water conditioner. Once you get a handle on this so far, you'll probably be doing closer to 75% water change weekly, for now I'd try every 2-3 days or so until you get the readings under control. And be sure as already stated that you don't clean filters in tap water, the chlorine kills the beneficial bacteria and keeps you at square one as far as having a cycled/established tank.

[aldevon2012]

thank you for all your reply . was gutted at reading some of your replies as realised i am ill treating them through lack of knowledge, on a positive note i have done a 50 percent water change today and will test water again tomorrow and keep changing it in 2 day cycles until the readings come back as negative, i have purchased the garlic seachem mentioned by jayd, i did think there diet was lacking. have tried them on all sorts of foods but really they seem to be wanting real foods so to speak .items on the thread you gave me i will try ,oinky - cleaning filter is me washing through the media in a bucket of tank water and changing the polishing pads and carbon no tap water goes anywhere near my media though my 4plus does get clogged your are spot on with more regular cleaning . circulation of water is only through the outlet of the cannister and the fluval four . though i think your right there isnt enough water moving around the bottom of the tank. any suggestions welcome, also could any one tell me how much my gravel will be contributing to the water quality and if at this time with the water being as is, is it best to remove it .

thank you all, i will defo spend a few hours this week reading more on here

[JayD976]

No worries you learning. Unfortunately as they mature they become very finicky eaters and less willing to try new foods so you have to kind of disguise it with what they do like. And as for the gravel when you do water changes you should also be vacuuming the gravel to remove detrius that has settled. But your on the right track do keep it up.

[OinKY]

Donsfish was right,meant nitrites zero. Thanks,bud

The overall turnover through the filters for the tank should be a minimum of 5-6X for the filter styles you are using. Hard to determine what the proper flow through an internal sponge-style should be though as it's dependent on the sponge's total surface area. You should be looking at 550gph,preferably more,through all the filtration. You really don't need supplemental circulation unless you feel you need it due to "dead spots" in the tank.
You can make room for more media in the canister by eliminating the carbon.It's not a necessity,can mask water quality issues (and readings),and if not changed on a tight schedule lead to other issues.The only important function is to remove foreign compounds from water...if you are the careful sort about what's allowed near the tank (no aerosol sprays for example) you should never need it.

also could any one tell me how much my gravel will be contributing to the water quality and if at this time with the water being as is, is it best to remove it .

It's not the gravel,but what get's trapped in the gravel,that affects water quality. Most of us have a substrate that consists of gravel so it's just a matter of maintenance on it...no need to remove it. It actually serves a purpose in the filtration of the tank as it houses quite a bit of beneficial bacteria on its surfaces,so just out-and-out removing it may affect the water quality in a negative way. Better to balance out water quality with it in place.

[donsfish]

Agree about the gravel and the carbon. Don't remove the gravel, just use the gravel vac every water change. Removing it now would actually cause more of a struggle with the tank cycle. I've switched gravel on a well established/filtered tank and had a mini cycle for a few days due to loss of beneficial bacteria. And yes, the carbon isn't needed but good to keep on hand to remove meds or toxins that may accidentally get in the tank. Running carbon regularly long term could actually start releasing toxins back into the water if it's not changed often enough.

[MrIan1077]

So carbon will release toxins back in the water?That's good to know.What should I put in my filter instead of carbon?

[JayD976]

So carbon will release toxins back in the water?That's good to know.What should I put in my filter instead of carbon?

It will if not replaced often enough. Most of us add either more mechanical or biological filter material I.e. more filter padding/floss to catch and remove debri or biological to house beneficial bacteria like ceramic rings.

[aldevon2012]

Hi people . I changed another 25 percent ( makes a 75% water change in two days) this afternoon on my lunch break and have came to test now , astonishingly and rather upset . it has not moved from original post . reading post and replies on here have pointed towards my carbon, in my canister 305 fluval i have four foam pads and 3 baskets bottom basket is biomax filled to the top , next basket above has a thin layer of more biomax one side carbon and one side ammonia remover next basket has more ammonia remover and carbon topped off with polishing pad on top , i am sitting here thinking is my carbon working against me and giving me false readings is my ammonia remover even working .i changed carbon and ammonia remover and polishing pads yesterday morning , i rinse the dust off in tank water. filter flow seems fine , i am at a lose. my tank looks spotless. . i know i am doing something seriously wrong , my carbon gets used for a month and changed so does the ammonia remover, makes no sense to me. is it normal to change this much water and dilute the problem and still come back with the same results.? mr/mrs.. oniky donfish and jayd? my tiger looks no worse today which is a positive.

[aldevon2012]

how often should carbon and ammonia remover should be changed? should i take carbon out and amonia and replace all with polishing pads and biomax?

[OinKY]

Ammonia remover is another "non-necessary" item. Properly functioning biological filtration removes ammonia by consuming it and releasing nitrite,which another bacteria consumes and releases nitrates. For better understanding,the nitrification cyle simplified.
Ammonia removers do not remove ammonia anyway.They either bind it or convert it to ammonium. Ammonium can be consumed,but it takes a bit longer than free ammonia does,and employees another species of nitrosomonas bacteria.If you have lots of chloramine in your tap water then it's possible to convert quite a bit of ammonium then as you break the chlorine bond with your water conditioner.
Simple enough to know if you have excess chloramine as the water will smell like chlorine (chlorine in proper use and correct amount has no odor or taste).

I would suggest checking the tap water for free ammonia and nitrite. Just run a gallon pitcher,dechlorinate by volume,let sit a couple hours,then run the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/tests. Lots chase ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings with water changes thinking they need to add this or that to the tank when it's a simple matter of rectifying things before it ever goes in the tank.

[MrIan1077]

I'm trying Chem Pure in my canister filter.I just put it in yesterday and so far so good.They say that you don't have to change it for 4 months.